CRISP. caught up Vice Golf founders Ingo Duellmann and Rainer Stoeckl to talk about golf balls, business and branding.
Hi Ingo/Rainer, Thanks for taking the time out to speak with us today.
Let’s go back to the beginning, before Vice Golf, what were you doing and how did you meet?
It is not the everyday story. We actually met while surfing at the Eisbach in Munich, a really unique artificial wave in the centre of the city.
We were both in different sectors – Rainer worked for an international consulting firm, I worked in business development for an international sports brand. We both share the passion for entrepreneurship, starting our own business – the fact that we started Vice Golf together was clearly not certain the day we met.
At what age did you get into Vice Golf?
We started off gradually and did not leave our well-paid jobs right away. First research was done when I was 29 and Rainer was 35, the company was founded when I was 30 (Rainer 35).
How did the idea of Vice Golf come about? Can you tell us a bit more of the early days of the brand?
We were pretty inspired by a German University professor (Prof. Guenther Faltin) who got successful with a direct to consumer model for tea.
Simultaneously, you´d see all the Warby Parkers, Dollar Shave Clubs and Everlane starting out – challenging the established firm with innovative distribution channels.
Rainer and I were on a consulting project in Asia for a golf ball manufacturer and learned about the value chain of golf balls and how much margin would be added through all the middlemen until the ball would be sold to the poor golfer who´d pay for all of this.
This is where the idea initiated and when we started to really think into this. We started off from my basement and I remember the first shipment of golf balls arriving and Rainer saying “We will never be able to sell these, our friends and families will have golf balls for the rest of their life.” Thankfully, things went differently.
How did the name come about?
Only very few people know that we started off the brand under the name “Flake”.
After one year, we internationalized into other European markets and learned about the meaning of “to flake someone” – clearly not what we wanted to be perceived as.
That´s why we came up with a rebranding in 2012 and started with “Vice” – one reason being that many different generations do relate to the term “Vice” in some way (Miami Vice in the ’70s, but also GTA Vice as video games for the younger generation) Also, per definition, “vice” can also be understood as a moral failing of a bad habit and ironically, we oftentimes see golf being our Vice.
You play terribly poor but the next day, you´re out on the course again trying to beat yesterday.
For our readers, can you tell us what Vice Golf means as a brand?
Vice Golf´s mission is to bring the highest quality, top-performing golf balls to all golfers around the world for a fantastic price. Vice Golf aims to combine this approach with a modern style and a positive and modern vibe. That´s why we mean what we say with our slogan: “Embrace Your Vice”.
We’re big fans of your products and use your golf balls every round, can you tell our readers a bit about your business model, why are the balls so well priced and why others are so expensive?
We´re a digitally native company and started out by selling online only, bypassing the middlemen, thereby cutting costs and offering a high-quality product at an exceptional price.
When we started with Vice Golf, online was the perfect channel to offer high performing products at a significantly lower price by cutting out the middleman.
After years of steady growth and popularity, we have now reached a size which enables us to produce even better golf balls at the most competitive prices.
Selling our products to those who plan ahead and order online is still key, but we want to move on and also offer them to those who go to the shop on short notice. A presence in retail gives our brand even broader visibility and customers can directly compare quality and prices.
A lot of readers often look to buy lake-balls as a cost-effective solution, Care to tell us why that’s a bad idea?
Lake balls are always a bad idea.
After just twelve hours in the water, the outermost layer of the golf ball allows water to enter into the ball. This is mainly because modern layers of multi-layer golf balls (such as Urethane and UPC) are usually constructed to be extremely hydrophilic in order to prevent adverse affections due to weather. But if golf balls sit in the water for longer periods of time, permanent damage will be the result.
While invisible from the outside, this damage will clearly affect the driving distance off of the tee. This means a change in characteristics of the ball, less control, less consistency.
read more about “forgetting lake balls” on the Vice Golf blog here
Just how good are your Golf balls compared to others on the market?
We prefer others to judge but we´ve received a Gold Medal for our premium models in 2020´s Golf Digest Hotlist which is the biggest independent testing conducted annually.
We were rated 5 stars in performance and innovation which gives us the feeling that we do something right. This is not the first award we have won but national and international awards date back to 2015, which underlines the passion and work we dedicate to developing and testing top performing golf balls
How are the Golf balls tested?
We follow a fairly simple procedure for prototypes. First off, they are tested by chosen golfers using tracking technology to get an understanding of playability, feel and performance.
If the golf ball is worth looking into in more detail, we ship them to San Diego Golf Labs, the gold standard of the industry where multiple other manufacturers also test their prototypes and have the ball tested with their golf robot. This is the ultimate testing to get objective results.
When it comes to putting, What makes a good golf ball and why do vice excel here?
Good putting is defined by straight roll mainly which relates to the dimple pattern.
All our golf balls also feature an adapted KIL-putting line for better visual perception of alignment when addressing the ball. The extra-long and highly visible “Keep In Line” (KIL) putting line with sharp edges has been developed in collaboration with amateurs and teaching professionals to meet the highest putting and alignment needs.
How its made – Video
What are your best selling balls and best selling accessories at the moment?
The overwhelming majority of items we sell are golf balls – which makes sense as we are a golf ball manufacturer. All the accessories we come up shape the brand and add style to Vice Golf but are sold in smaller quantities than golf balls.
What new products can we expect in the Portfolio?
We just started our apparel line and have received great feedback on that and launched a ladies line of golf balls – there´s always a new thing on our website, so it makes most sense to follow our social channels and check on the website for regular updates.
We love the personalization element of the user journey, can we expect to see vice apparel being personalized in the future too?
Since golf balls are our main business, the focus is on making the golf balls and additional features around the golf balls better.
Customized golf ball packaging is one of these items which is well received and available when ordering by email – we are working on getting the tool itself live at a later stage, too.
How often do you both still get to play?
Less than we´d like to – but we strongly believe that less golf also means better business results – at least in our case!
Are you competitive, who is better?
I´d say I am more competitive, Rainer would disagree. We both are competitive but in a good way. Maybe, I´m a little worse at losing.
You can buy balls and accessories from Vice Golf now by visiting www.vicegolf.com
For all of the latest updates on the brand be sure to follow what they’re up to on their Instagram page at @vicegolf
